S1 EP02 - Good Old Fashioned American Procreation
Blake
Welcome to Who's Gonna Be There, a podcast that has to wear earplugs to the club. My name is Blake.
Kashif
My name is Kashif.
Blake
And this week we are going to be recapping Pride, going back over the last month of events. We're going to be talking about what it's like to navigate gay Nashville during Pride, especially as two friends who are differently melanated.
Kashif
Very differently.
Blake
We're going to be talking about the complicated emotions that come with working for an NFL organization that decided not to participate in rainbow capitalism this year, but not for the right reasons. And last but not least, we've got a little bit of announcement, some breaking news.
Kashif
Yes.
Blake
Our very own Kashif Andrew Graham is going to be a daddy.
Kashif
A daddy. A daddy and not a zaddy.
Blake
Well, I'm not talking about the noises that you might hear coming from his apartment late at night. I'm talking about good old fashioned procreation.
Kashif
Good old fashioned American procreation.
Blake
Well, it's maybe not old-fashioned.
Kashif
Yeah, this is kind of new-fashioned.
Blake
This is queer procreation.
Kashif
Yes.
Blake
Well, Kashif, tell me what stood out for you, this Pride.
Kashif
Yeah, we... God, we did a lot.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
The parties this year, we went to a lot of parties, but I felt like I talked to more people. I think because I freed myself to do that and to move around the rooms and as folks say in the South, hug necks. And yeah, I think that was a positive was that I talked to more people this year than in previous years where I was just focused on trying to survive the spaces. That's a difference for me
Blake
Yeah it's interesting you say that I think I maybe did less of that this year but also it's weird because I had just realized today this was my first pride as a single man when I've been both out and single in the past it's not been during pride season and so I think whereas I would normally show up with this kind of security that I took for granted that I was like not necessarily looking for romantic opportunities. I was just going out so that I could feel connected in a communal way to the other people that I was out with on the dance floor or in conversations. And this time it's like I put a little bit more pressure on myself to keep my eyes out for somebody who might be looking my way. Which, to be honest, distracted me a little bit.
Kashif
Okay, let's get into that. Tell me, distracted you?
Blake
Yeah, I think whereas before, I just wouldn't be looking for opportunities. This time, there was a part of my brain that was looking for opportunities. And therefore, the, I guess, energy, the social energy that I would normally spend just like focusing on nourishing the friendships that I have with the people in our community while going out. Now I was doing that, but also half of my brain was also kind of focused elsewhere. So it was just like more sensory input, like more brain power, more social energy.
Kashif
Yep. And then tired at the end.
Blake
And then very tired at the end.
Kashif
Okay. So past years have been like that for me where I think I was solely so focused on trying to be with my friends and trying to, when I say survive the space, I mean really trying a good time and trying to feel like I belonged. And I think this year was the first year that I did like really open my eyes to romantic opportunity. And I still made off, you know, completed the parade of hugging necks and going around and talking to people. It is tiring. It is exhausting though, 'cause you're like, God, your eyes are open and you're wondering, like what if, let me make sure I go say hi to that person 'cause this could be a thing. And let me, 'cause there's the concentration of so many people that it feels like a very compressed moment especially when we were at QDP. I remembered having that feeling at Brooklyn Bowl, It's two floors. There's a big patio and there are so many people and there's the energy from the stage. And on every side, it's sort of like my person, my people, romantically, they could be here. Just to think about it as a singular moment, like my person could be here. And I need to keep moving so that they might see me. We might make the connection. I also did feel that too. So I feel you on that. And that, God, it just leaves you. Like, how do you recover at the end of the night when your brain is so tired from that?
Blake
Literally hitting my bed and going to sleep. I can go to sleep in T-minus two seconds. Literally, as soon as my body goes horizontal, it starts shutting down. I mean, I will save processing for the next day.
Kashif
That's interesting. I know we're both like big processors and we have our methods, whether that's the journal or talking to each other or talking to other therapists or whatever. But I noted that when I opened my journal on Sunday, I had not journaled since the 24th. So there was a long sweep, which meant that I was just going and going. And for whatever reason, I was so in the moment that I didn't process. But I feel you, yeah. You just go to bed and then you wake up the next day and there's another party.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
And you have
Blake
to Party, plane, another plane, another bus. Yeah.
Kashif
The altar, crying, busting it down.
Blake
Coffee shop,
Kashif
Another plane. Yeah. It was really, yeah, just like nonstop. I mean, on Saturday night, we went to three parties. Three parties
Blake
Three parties
Kashif
Back to back with outfit changes, okay.
Blake
We do promise. This is a podcast hosted by introverts, but when pride month comes, who knows?
Kashif
Yeah. Because as introverts, I think there is a sense of like, this is a prime opportunity. We don't want to miss this. We've already given so much energy. So just it's like, you might as well go all the way and try to show up to everything and make the best of it.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
Yeah.
Blake
And there's something particular about the level of energy that Nashville in particular requires of us, I think.
Kashif
Yeah.
Blake
It may be in ways that other cities might not. This is hypothetical because I haven't done a lot of pride things in other cities. But Nashville in particular seems like, especially for us, it always seems to bring out the hardest parts of our friendship.
Kashif
Yeah, it does.
Blake
And as introverts, you know, it's hard enough to go out. And I think even between two friends who are kind of stratified differently or, sorry, stratified the same within the American caste system, it would be hard enough for two introverts to suddenly flip the extrovert switch on and socialize for a month and still figure out how to like navigate their friendship. But I think it's even harder in a space like Nashville where that power structure is so obvious and so potent that it always exposes, I think, for the two of us, the difficulty of navigating our specific friendship.
Kashif
Yeah. And the current always feels like so strong, like the tide is high. And I think the hardest thing when we talk about caste is that we are walking into the same space and there are different possibilities for both of us just because this is Nashville. And during Pride, everybody's out there and the folks that we know or that are interested in us, you know, are coming up and making their themselves known. And when you're in a place that has made you feel ugly, that also becomes obvious during Pride. I think that is probably one of the things that drains me the most. Every pride is going into the space and being so hopeful that I might meet someone and that there might be a sort of a romance or a fling after, you know, what something that at least feels good to me. And oftentimes it is the sort of same possibility model or scraps of feel good. you know yeah we talk a lot about um you know access and white supremacy and white supremacist beauty standards and it feels like you and i are often functioning on sort of those two levels of like we zoom out and there are our you know identity markers and then there's Kashif and Blake and our faces. And sometimes I think our frustrations at the larger systems just make it difficult to be in a space and have a good time and not feel like for you to feel like you're responsible for making the world a better place for me and for me to feel like I need to pretend to have a good time so that you can feel like everything is okay, he's okay.
Blake
Yeah, I mean, this is the difficulty, is that we do spend a lot of time intellectualizing how we move through different spaces from like a critical race theory lens, from the lens of how power flows through Nashville, through gay white Nashville. And the trickier part is how all of those things get tangled up in just the like interpersonal stuff that two friends experience with each other. Things like a tendency to people please, things like a tendency to not state what you want or you feel because you're wanting to hold on to that friendship, things like attachment styles, things like . . . All of those things get tangled up in a way that you can't necessarily pick them apart cleanly and dissect them So then at the end of the day you're feeling like i'm doing something contrary to my values or something contrary to the theory, but I'm being led by my care for this other person. And then you get tangled up and confused and all that. It's just,
Kashif
Yeah, it's a web.
Blake
It's, it's, um, and obviously like it involves a lot of trust and a lot of giving somebody the benefit of the doubt. And again, that's, that's, that's easy for me to say as a white dude, um, because like for so many Black folks, you give white folks the benefit of the doubt. and then they betray you and you get stabbed in the back.
Kashif
Yeah. And you get whacked in the face.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
But but trust is important. I mean, one of the challenges to that, and as we talk about, you know, our interpersonal, you know, histories and then our own histories, I mean, you you look like my bullies, you know, and and the other day when we were at a certain party and it was a circuit party, it was very dark and the music was thumping and I was trying to find you. We were supposed to meet at one corner or the other to sort of get ready to move to the next spot. And I remembered looking at every profile and every person kind of looked like you. And then when I finally saw you and realized that it was you, I had a moment of... As I was looking at all the faces, there was that normal sort of panic or sense of unsafety, perhaps. And it took me a second to realize you and then I sort of felt like myself calming down. There is a sort of rage, rage at the machine, rage at the system that sorts our bodies that says, you'll have these type of experiences, I'll have these type of experiences. And that's sort of it. As I rage at that, oftentimes it's when we are sitting together and talking and we see each other's faces that I find the rage is redirected, you know, or it dissipates or it's expressed, but it's like, hold my hand while I like shoot this fire to the sky, you know, and it's hard to live like that sometimes, but it's, and it just pride always brings it out. Um, I found that when we were at the end of, you know, we got to the last party, even though it wasn't, you know, a banger, I wanted to text you after and say, we survived. That's what I want to say. We survived.
Blake
For real, though.
Kashif
We survived this pride.
Blake
We did survive. And in many ways, the process of revealing the shit underneath, kind of forcing us to come into confrontation with kind of the shadow of our friendship, I'm thankful for, actually. That pride allowed us or exposed for us the dynamics and that we did the hard work of addressing them and then course corrected and then spent the rest of pride navigating the new plan, the new strategy.
Kashif
Yeah, and this was the result of also several prides. This was the result of several prides that I think caused us, like when we realized what it brought out, but what the dynamic became, I think, yeah, I'm glad that we talked through and sort of figured all of that out and really were able to feel free, more free at least, as free as maybe for me, I'll speak for myself, as free as I feel like I can be while I'm in Nashville. I think I will probably not know what to do about issues of access and who's talking to who and why. A lot of it is because it just feels like it's scarce in Nashville. If I was in a place like, let's say Atlanta, where it's just like plenteous of, you know, the brother brothers, the white brothers, the Asian brothers, the Latino brothers, you know, whoever I want to talk to. I think I would probably say just like let people do what they want to do and go for who they want to go for. But it's hard when you're a Black gay man and you want to connect with other black gay men, other beautiful black gay men, but they might not necessarily find you attractive because they're going towards the white folks. And, you know, I mean, and I date everybody, so I'm not going to be, you know, OK, but that's hard. It's hard to like sit with that. And it's like you have to acknowledge the reality, the overarching narrative or the patterns. And sometimes you say, I don't know exactly what to do about that. And I'm holding these things in tension. I want all of us to eat. I want everybody to have pleasure. But at the same time, there's this other thing of like, huh, this is a challenge, especially in Nashville.
Blake
Yeah. There's a specific dynamic that you're recognizing there is a specific way that our lives get structured here and I don't know i don't i don't want to get be like an armchair sociologist here um but i've thought a lot about like why is that why is nashville the way it is you know i don't know if it's because nashville is one of those like quote-unquote safe cities that you know conservatives want to dog la and new york city but then they'll bring their podcast to Nashville. Do you know what I mean? Because I guess Nashville is one of the good ones in terms of cities. And so maybe that sort of culture affects gay Nashville as well, where it's sort of like you can move here and have the best of both worlds. You can keep your kind of weird ideologies and still have some sort of, you know, gay scene to go out to. I'm not sure. All I know is that it's palpable when you go out and you don't even have to be looking very hard to notice it where the the gazes go and also just to honestly it's paying attention to who's not there
Kashif
and and ideas that who's not there who's going to be there
Blake
who's going who's not going to be there
Kashif
who's not going to be there okay man yeah but yeah that's a it's a you know, I put myself together and I know that if I were looking in that room, I would not miss me. And I do see the people, you know, looking. There is a sort of like culture where I feel like sometimes in those spaces, there's like a power differential where if I'm in a room of mostly white dudes, maybe the expectation is that I will go up to them and say something, but I see them looking or later on Grindr or something, I may, you know, get a message. In 2023, summer of 2023, that happened a lot. And that was also very strange because it's sort of like, treat me like a human. So now, and I'm not interested in that kind of energy because I'm truly too good for that. So it's like, if you want to look great, admire, thank you for the eyes. But I am sort of not going to, I'm not going to be involved in that. who is supposed to talk to who because there's a caste system at play, but it is at play. And so what I do is I'll sit with my friends or go and walk around and talk to the people who do want to talk to me and I want to talk to them. And there are enough of those that I feel many nights or many times going out in Nashville that it's not a 110% waste. But there are times in which it's not that many people. So there are times in which, I mean, we talked about, like maybe I need to leave and you can stay, you know, and talk to, you know, whomever, or we just leave and go write somewhere or something, you know?
Blake
I mean, I don't know a whole lot of people out and about regardless of it. I mean, really the main reason I go out is that kind of collective effervescence feeling, you know?
Kashif
Yes, and we got a moment, several moments like that this past weekend. I know that when we were at QDP, which is for our listeners, stands for Queer Dance Party, and happens once a month in Nashville, usually at Basement East, but during the special seasons, Halloween and Pride and New Year's, they have them at different locations. So this one at Brooklyn Bowl, with all of the, just a huge turnout. So one of the drag queens, she was doing Selena, performing Selena. And oh my God, I could feel the effervescence, at least even between the few of us that were up there, standing up on the second floor and just dancing and moving.
Blake
Yeah, it's fun when you feel something take over the crowd.
Kashif
- Oh, yes. And it was to the point that, I mean, Listen, child, that will get me going. But it got to the point that I literally said, if she does Dreaming of You, I'm going to fall to my knees up here and just have a whole I don't know what because I absolutely adore that song. But that's such a good feeling. And those are the things I go out for. I know that there was one night because we went to QDP two nights in a row. I know that the first night I left early. Not early, it was early. It was like 1 a.m. But I left and you stayed back and danced.
Blake
Yeah, I was hoping to get some dancing in. And the music did just kind of shift. And there it was. And yeah, it's things like that that make the night for me usually. But also one of the reasons that I in particular love QDP is because it's not just gay men.
Kashif
Right.
Blake
And there is a sense in which when I go to those events and I'm dancing with everybody in Nashville. And of course, that's not to say that QDP isn't also stratified as well. And that like there are folks that don't show up to QDP as well. But it's a bigger cross section. And I feel more like I'm truly part of a queer family.
Kashif
Yes.
Blake
And it's interesting because I will walk through that room. I'll see people that will look at me that, you know, like somewhere along the last six months, their gazes turn cold. And I don't know why. There will be people that I walk past and I realize we hooked up last week and you're not talking to me because your partner's here and I had no idea about them I'll walk past somebody else and it'll be like things will probably always be awkward between us and I don't know why I also like partied with two of my exes this you know they're they're complicated relationships everywhere
Kashif
yes
Blake
but there is something when that collective effervescence kicks in that I'm like you know what at the end of the day when the shit hits the fan i'm linking arms with all of you
Kashif
yes yeah i mean one of the and i and for me i'll say most because what i have to do is recognize even if you are not going to treat me like a human i'm going to treat you like a human because what that does is i'm going to do the ianla womanhood um you know but what that does is it keeps me at my center so that when I'm moving through the crowd and I see the people who, you know, some of the people are a little funny that they don't want to say hi or whatever, I'm going to say, hey, how you doing? You know, and I know when I'm feeling the effervescence also of the joys of friendship and love and connection and sex and desire and all of that, when all of that feels like it's unfurling in me, I know because my voice goes up to the Jamaican, a patois you know sort of like hey how you doing man you know it's because you're like so excited to see people and even if there are folks who walk by and it's sort of like okay that was a hookup that you know you're not gonna talk to me in person but you you you know we have our little set scheduled whatever that's fine you know i love
Blake
I'll see you on Tuesday
Kashif
Tuesday okay at 3 30 but you know
Blake
A little afternoon delight, okay
Kashif
Okay okay a little a little pick me up before you know Okay i mean but when I'm moving through the crowd and I feel all of that, I also, it feels very human to me because those spaces used to be so scary to me. I was so scared when I first went to QDP. I thought it was just going to be a bunch of white gay men in the center who were looking at everybody, not dancing, laughing at people. If you had a little, you know, body fat that spilled over your pants or something, or they thought you looked weird, which provided I have
Blake
There is a lot of that
Kashif
Yeah, I mean i i have seen that done but and and but to me i'm like who does that Why would you stand up there and you know yeah but but
Blake
It's the energy that you come with where you're like you're you're not going to make me hate you. You're not going to make You're not going to poison me that way
Kashif
And then spend my time talking about you even though i don't know you in specific and saying you know this person that person whatever but i was so scared of going into those spaces that now it's so important for me to go and say hi to the people that i do know yeah And even if there are people, there are some people who, for one reason or another, whether it's because, I found out too, there was a partner involved or something, whatever. I will just do a little squeeze on the shoulder, maybe, sometimes, and they'll respond in kind, whatever we keep it pushing. But it's just important to me because it reminds me that I do have friends. We know our favorite line, "You do have friends, Veronica." You do have friends, Veronica.
Blake
Veronica Mars reference for the Mars heads out there.
Kashif
Yes, for the Mars investigators. It just reminds me of that. And it is, but also that there are other people who are just trying to figure this shit out too. You know, one of the other positive, really things for me during this Pride was that I did not withhold touch. I found in other Prides, I was so worried. I was worried about everything but myself. And that's one thing I realized. I was worried about how to make sure that I was not going to be in an unsafe situation. And by that, I mean that everybody else in a friend group would be fucking. And basically, it would just be Kashif looking here like, you know, whoo. Not that the people didn't necessarily want to bust it down because they have very clearly indicated that desire, which is wonderful. But I did not necessarily want to do that at the time. And I didn't really, I don't know. I just had to change my mind about things. But I was so invested in keeping myself safe that I would not be, find myself on the outside like I had for so much of my life where I would be in a friend group and then realize like, oh, they're all, they have another group chat, you know? Oh, they're all talking, saying whatever about me or something. It's very interesting how those unresolved traumas come back. And they're things that we have to deal with. I've dealt with a lot of it in therapy, but I was so concerned. I need to be safe in this situation. And if that means I'm like, let's try to just keep it, keep it profesh. But then this year, this year, I said, no, man, everybody, everybody make the connection. And so what happened was I was like, that's fine. If y'all interested in Blake over here, this is, you know, whatever. Great. Wonderful. I'm going to go over there because
Blake
I'm seeing somebody interested in you over there.
Kashif
Well, not somebody, somebody, somebody's. And what happened? Well, what happened actually at that last party? Well, at the penultimate party was that, well, I decided I was like, let me go, you know, move through the room. And then I saw somebody that I recognized from the internets. And I said, okay, a white brother, a big brother. So I just...
Blake
Big how?
Kashif
Listen, big how girl.
Blake
Yeah, okay.
Kashif
And he was big where it counted and where it counted again. And so I went and I talked to him. and said, you know, I said, are you who I think you are? And he, you know, was flattered at the sort of coyness. And so we talked for a second and he gave me a hug and I thought I was going to drop on the ground. But anyway, so I, you know, we talked for a second and then I get some water and I moved to the other side of the room and there I saw somebody, a previous hookup, who also is, you know, an OnlyFans person. And I just said hi. It was nice to see him. And then he invited me. When I was minding my business, he invited me to a time in the sky. And so we truly give God the praise. But that for me is an example of how I centered my own pleasure. Yeah.
Blake
And meanwhile, that night, I mean, we arrived at this party together. And this was after a week of really sorting through our shit.
Kashif
Right.
Blake
And without getting too deep into it, I mean, there are many realizations that I came to over this month about my own pleasure and my own desire and not allowing kind of both, yeah, past trauma, people pleasing tendencies, but also just like a coping mechanism to be perfect, to keep me safe and to hide in plain sight. And allowing that perfectionism to show up in how I would go out with you and make sure that I was like one of the good white ones and like making sure that you were safe and that you were good and that you weren't having a bad time, which just lends itself to the cycle that you mentioned earlier, where we're both focused on each other, you know. And so it was that same night that there was this group that kind of swept me in and we're just kind of going on the dance floor bodies or against bodies. And I was sitting there and I was like, I have to keep my brain on where Kashif is. Like, I need to, I need to like look around. I need to figure out how he's doing. And I'm in that moment. I was just like, just let it go. He's going to be okay.
Kashif
Yeah.
Blake
Like just dance.
Kashif
Yeah.
Blake
And it was also so validating that when we came back together, both of us had stories.
Kashif
Yeah. Yeah. It was also validating that it made sense for me to pursue my own pleasure. And, and we have to be real. In a city like Nashville, the opportunities, this is not for me a cornucopia. And so my decision to do that is, again, yes, centering myself. But by doing that, I'm open. I'm open to flirtation with who I want to talk to. But rather than saying, this is such a barren place, nothing good can happen here, and I'm gonna stay in this one spot and just do a two-step. I refuse that. I actually refuse that. Because before, what I was so focused on was the energy that we'd be dancing together and the energy that was rushing to you. And I sort of thought like, okay, you don't wanna seem like a bad friend, so you also sort of stand here. And in doing that, I also missed the gazes that were looking at me. And so I had to change my mind about that as well. But it was all like just new shit, things that I hadn't necessarily experienced. And I, you know, had not really had many gay friends as an adult. Now I do. But all of those adjustments while also saying, like, I want my friends to have a good time. So obviously at some point, you know, we check in and like make sure all is good. And then do whatever we want to do.
Blake
Because there is an alternate reality in which I get sucked in and there are zero opportunities for you. And in that reality, I do think it would be appropriate for me to for a little red alarm to go off in my brain and be like, OK, where's Kashif? It's been a little while, you know, Let's go find him because, you know, I don't know if you're in a corner, you know, somewhere like on your journal, on your phone.
Kashif
I mean, I I'll do that even if I'm having a good time.
Blake
Yeah,
Kashif
Because I was at an orgy doing that. So, so there it does. I'm dead ass I'm dead the fuck ass.
Blake
Yeah, I know.
Kashif
I was literally. So I will do that regardless.
Blake
Yes.
Kashif
But, but I take your point. And I think that that's just the, that's Nashville. In another city. I mean, if we were in Toronto
Blake
Or Atlanta,
Kashif
like there are places where the both of us could be happy and could feel fulfilled in our, in separate, like you have, you were making and the connection with who we wanna talk to, and it doesn't feel scarce. And there's not that sense of hunger. I think that traveling as friends has been great because you realize Nashville is a pie, and you can see the crust, and the crust from way across on the west coast or wherever, you're looking at the crust, and you're like, mm-mm. But you realize that there is a very particular culture here. There is also, we have to be real, about the global export of white supremacy.
Blake
Sure.
Kashif
That's real. I think we recognize that there are other places where people are socialized differently that feel better. And I look forward to our friendship in those places. Even if you're in another city and I'm coming to visit you or vice versa, or we're in the same city again, I think that I look forward to that because I realized I was like, I am able to breathe and recognize like this is not everywhere. But that also is, it's hard. It makes cast, makes things difficult because I wanna make it abundantly clear. I am beautiful and it is very clear to me how handsome I am. I'm saying that like, it's not about being self-deprecating, but I don't want listeners to sort of criticize me by saying actually you are closer to a certain, ideal of whatever. I'm very clear about that. I am just saying that in Nashville, again, because of how some folks are socialized, and there are a lot of beautiful black men here as well, but because of how some people are socialized, including the black men, they are not necessarily looking at that. So I'm there standing there at a bar, at a club, looking really, as someone told me this past which I appreciated. She said, "You 90's fine," which is like, you know, highest compliment.
Blake
Honestly, that's spot on.
Kashif
Yeah. I appreciate that. But it's like I could be standing there in the club and not necessarily feeling like folks are coming up to me to flirt, to talk, to whatever. And the work that I've had to do to survive here and to try to come into a place of thriving, to like push through was to actually recognize, like to see myself, not through a white gaze, but for me to look at me and say, "Would I date that guy?" Absolutely. You know, it's taken a long time to get here. This pride has been also healing in some ways. There were, again, small promises of healing. When we were walking at the festival, I saw someone who-- a beautiful Black man. I mean, a brother-brother. Tall and fine and the kind of person that I would really feel like my shoulders drop around because they just seem so strong and responsible. And-- Why are you laughing? Why are you laughing at responsible?
Blake
I just had a mental picture of him carrying you in his arms.
Kashif
Okay, girl. But the way he hugged me, when he hugged me, honey, and he put his hands on my waist and held me there for a second and looked me in my eyes. I was like, either I'm going to fall out or ejaculate.
Blake
When was this? I missed this.
Kashif
Yeah, because you were minding your business as you should have been. Because you stepped away.
Blake
Oh, I got you.
Kashif
Okay. Yeah, I know now. Yeah, you were like a couple.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
But we were having a nice little exchange there. But when I talk about the promise of healing, it was because when I saw him, I had been really sad about how another black gay man treated me, or just was not as tender and careful in our exchanges. But there, the first thing he did when he saw me, he made sure, and he apologized and owned it. And I don't know, I felt genuine. And I said, you know, I was pissed at him, but I appreciate that. To me, that was like, it's not all doom and gloom. There are the real realities of like the overarching narratives. But, you know, I think there are provisions. And I very much intend to eat. But okay, or be eaten. Or be eaten like I was in Toronto. Praise God. Yeah, it just, it was a wonderful experience. And I just wanted to make sure to say that. And I have also been in rooms where there are some bomb ass black men who love other black men and love white men and love whoever they love. That's great. But who they actually take care of each other and are tender. And I'm so happy when I see them. I always give them a big hug. So I want to make sure that I acknowledge that on the mic, like the girls are here taking care of each other. It just feels like in Nashville, there are way more who are not doing that. Okay. And I'm going to say that.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
That's the reality.
Blake
All right. Well, we could talk about this all day and all night and then again tomorrow. But yeah, let's go ahead and go to an ad break and we'll be right back. If you live in Middle Tennessee and have been thinking lately about a career shift, may I humbly suggest the field of massage therapy. In a low-touch culture like the U.S., massage therapy can make a powerful difference in people's lives. And trust me, MindBody Institute is the perfect massage school to start the journey of becoming a licensed practitioner. MindBody Institute is a 36-week program with a clinical emphasis. They limit class sizes to ensure an individualized, hands-on learning experience where instructors tailor their lessons to fit your particular learning style. Full disclosure here, I happen to be one of those instructors, so I'm obviously biased, but I absolutely believe that MindBody is one of the best massage educations that you can get in Tennessee and the surrounding area, and that's evidence in our students' InBlex pass rate. So if you want a massage school that feels like family, head over to mindbody.edu to get more information, request a catalog, or schedule a tour. Again, that's mindbody.edu. You every pride we are inundated with you know pink washing from all sorts of companies all sorts of you know organizations it's kind of old hat at this point which is why for the last few years on the first day of pride every time the NFL teams kind of drop their little social media posts where they change their logos to you know a new rainbow logo I sort of roll my eyes and move on with my day. But this year it felt a little different. And I was trying to figure out like why. And the specific team that I work for did not post this year. They haven't in the last few years. They're just not that team. And this year, I think it's because of the regime that we're living under now. When I saw the post being made by other teams, it felt a little different. It didn't necessarily, I guess in the back of my mind, I'm like, what do I think about rainbow capitalism now? you know, what do I think about teams that, or not even teams, just companies in general that will use the language and the symbols of pride to roll out a new marketing campaign and make more money while still donating to politicians that oppress us, you know? But then after a while, I was like, I kind of, I'm a little interested in, you know, if they're doing this cost benefit analysis of like, should we post about pride? Should we not? How many fans are we going to piss off versus fans we're going to bring in? Especially for the NFL, which the average fan is like a 25 to 45-year-old white dude, probably conservative. In the back of my mind, I was like, could these teams be doing a teeny tiny little bit of activism? And if so, then I feel some kind of way about my team not doing it. Do you know what I mean? And I don't know if I necessarily arrived at a conclusion on that. I did find out that there are different teams in the NFL that have different fan bases and donate to different causes. And that I am working for one that has a pretty bad record.
Kashif
Yeah. And they were at Pride this year.
Blake
Well, they were barely at Pride.
Kashif
I mean, they were at Pride with the smallest little table.
Blake
The smallest table. And they did the same thing last year. They had the table and I came up and I said, hi, do y'all work for the organization?The straightest two men in the building said, hi, yeah, we, well, we work at the stadium. And so I was like, well, I work.
Kashif
I am Blake Mundell. Chief, you know, yeah.
Blake
But they were like, they were like, well, we did have some stuff, but we ran out of it. And so.
Kashif
What did they, they had like a sticker?
Blake
I was like, there's not a, and again, rainbow capitalism aside, I'm like, there's not a single rainbow under this tent. I was like, this is the same setup that, yeah, y'all use at the national, you know, banking conference last week exactly i wouldn't be able to tell the two apart this is pride yeah anyway i don't i still don't know how i feel about it other than i know how i feel when i'm in that space it's very ask don't ask don't tell kind of place and different people in the building come and go our former head coach was very vocal in his support of same-sex marriage of lgbtq plus rights in general i i guess i'm trying to get out of this mindset where i'm looking for crumbs and So it's just, you know.
Kashif
So that's the theme of today.
Blake
I guess it's a theme.
Kashif
It's a theme, yeah. Crumbs, can you survive on crumbs?
Blake
Yeah. Well, why don't we pivot then to a place of plenty, okay? Because you recently had a trip this past month down to Atlanta and had a slightly different experience there.
Kashif
Yes, I ate and I ate and I ate. I'm quoting myself from my journal. So I ate and I ate and I ate. I mean, you know, traveling to Atlanta, God, it felt like just like full, like I could, like anything was possible. I could make whatever connection I wanted to make, where I felt like I was saying, do I like this person? Do I like this thing? Do I actually, like not does this person like me or does this, can I get into this place? Rather, does this feel like, do I wanna be here?
Blake
Is this aligned with me?
Kashif
Yeah, is this aligned with me? And that way then you could sort of say, no, thank you. And it's not like you're gonna go hungry. You just, you know, you can politely say no, thank you and not feel like you're being mean to someone. But Atlanta was, God, it was just such a bright spot. I mean, the trip started, I was there for the week and there to donate my sperm to a wonderful queer couple that I am helping conceive. And I'm also going to be in the child's life as an uncle. So the daddy thing is a joke. But, you know, I will not be the father. That's very clear. But as an uncle.
Blake
Yeah. Uncle is just not as fun to yell in bed.
Kashif
Oh, no. It depends on who you are.
Blake
I haven't had that experience yet.
Kashif
Because some of the girls are like, you know, okay.
Blake
Unk, unk, unk.
Kashif
Unk, unk, unk, unk. That's the sound of that metal headboard. It's not going to get some of them.
Blake
Unk, unk, unk,
Kashif
unk, unk.
Blake
Okay.
Kashif
All right. Or the Jeep Wrangler suspension.
Blake
That's what I'm more familiar with.
Kashif
Okay. So.
Blake
Well, but I love this though. Like I, when you first told me that, not just that this opportunity came to you, but that they also asked you to be a part, to form a new kind of family. God, I love that.
Kashif
Yeah. It does again feel like swimming upstream, but it's a part of, you know, it felt like this whole month was full of discussions about how do we make this work? We love each other. It's very clear. How do we stay? How do we build? How do we thrive in this empire? In whatever the regulations are that try to ensure that two women cannot have a child or two men or two non-binary people, whatever. So yeah, it's definitely like, it's so queer inherently. And while I was there, we talked a lot about what the procedure was like for donating. And I had to go to Emory three times that week. And there's a lot of testing involved, questionnaires, FDA regulations. Some of our listeners will know that gay men cannot donate anonymously. They have to donate as known donors, according to the FDA. But the FDA questionnaire was a whole thing. I just remembered on Monday morning sitting at Emory, like going through pages and pages of, you know, material. It's just insane. One of the questions was, are you a male who since 1977 has had sex with another male? I literally held that page up to the doctors like, girl, hello.
Blake
1977. I don't. It's just. Is there something that. There's something that happened that historically,
Kashif
I just don't know what it is, but it was also like hilarious. I was like, girl, yes, obviously. Yeah.
Blake
Have you seen the way I dress? I was like, have you seen how fabulous I am?
Kashif
Okay, get into these nails, honey. Get into these brows. So how about you answer the question?
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
Okay. One of the other questions was, have you had sexual contact with an African, someone who is from or has recently been to Africa? And I thought that was appalling. It's, again, tied to ideas about, you know, the African body and racial dimorphism and not just but
Blake
also the continent. I mean not just black bodies but contact with black bodies.
Kashif
Yes and it's essentially saying like if you do that you are dirty and we don't yeah we have to now like do extra screening. So if you fail they essentially if you don't pass that questionnaire you are deemed ineligible but it's sort of moot. It was moot for me because as a gay man I could not be anonymous, an anonymous donor. So I went through that whole process. Did my three collections throughout the week. That's a lot. But it's a part of just making sure that they have the best sample for the rest of the process.
Blake
If you can, tell us a little bit about it. I'm curious about this couple. Tell us about them.
Kashif
Yes. So a queer couple that is just, oh my God, fascinating. They power lift. So there was one night that we went to a powerlifting gym in Atlanta, a gay powerlifting gym.
Blake
So y'all are going to have a strong baby.
Kashif
Oh, yes. Okay. Skrong with a K. But it also feels like we're, I mean, we're a family already because there's so many similarities between us. I mean, even walking through their house, the like furniture, the vintage wares, literally things I would have in my own place.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
So it was very clear the sort of alignment. Yes.
Blake
Well, really quick, super, super quick. Let's just like shoot off a few things that we want to see, maybe things that we loved about pride that we want to carry forth into the future, or maybe just aspirational things that we want to see as a part of our particular prides, or maybe pride in general. I guess it's open-ended. So I'll start off. I'll go first. We did it a lot, this pride. Like you mentioned, the costume changes, the fashion, the just trusting in your intuition to go out in whatever feels good to you. I had this experience where early on, during Pride this year, I was like, and we've been working out since January. We've been very steady about that. And just getting out there and being like, oh, I feel good. And I picked out this outfit myself. And for a guy that works in a training facility where I'm in my gear all the time and I have no input into what I'm wearing, that felt really good. And then towards the end of the month, I started noticing, okay, Like, I don't want to just like, you know, get attention because I'm poking my thighs out. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm actually going to like try these pants on that like, because of my frame, I love how they fit. But they're still going to conceal my legs. But like, it's also going to be sexy. And that was fun. That's something I want to carry forward.
Kashif
Yeah, it was fun to watch it. Listen, when you stood up and I saw the flare, that's I, you heard my exclamation.
Blake
Yeah.
Kashif
Because I was like, that's how you do it. That's how you do it. You do the high low. Let me show an arm, but let me do that. I mean, it was really, yeah.
Blake
Well, I have a good teacher.
Kashif
Well, are you talking about me? Me?
Blake
Don't get too big a head.
Kashif
Listen, I am just going to say thank you for the compliment. Okay. So my thing is I want to see more interest group events. So I would love to see like every year, maybe there's one interest group that takes over. So if it's like the rowing team or something that, you know, the queer rowing club or something that takes over and it's known that there's going to be a big event, it's on the Cumberland and people get to somehow participate. And the next year it's, you know, the rollerblading folks. And so you get to try something new, but you also, but it's like we all rally behind something. I think that could be really interesting. I think Nashville Pride as a whole could put that on so that there are more things that are not just like, you know, just drinking and dancing.
Blake
Nother club.
Kashif
Right.
Blake
Just like give me library, you know,
Kashif
wig store, whatever.
Blake
Trivia.
Kashif
Trivia.
Blake
Trivia. Yeah.
Kashif
Yeah. So I think that is something that, yeah, that I'd like to see.
Blake
Yeah. I was going to say trivia.
Kashif
Okay.
Blake
So I was in the same vein.
Kashif
Yeah.
Blake
So I think I'll switch instead to, you hear this phrase worn out these days by people who I don't think really, or maybe they know what it means, but there's no praxis behind it. And it's the phrase, you know, I want pride to be a protest. You know, pride should be a protest. And when people say that these days, I'm like, what do you actually mean by that? Like, how are you actually changing your behavior to match that value that you have? And I think one of the ways for me, and this is what I want to see going forward, is that especially for white folks showing up in those spaces, that we are always understanding what our orientation is to empire. I was listening to this song. This is going to sound so cheesy. But it's this song that came out a few years ago by J.P. Saxe and Julia Michaels. It's called If the World Was Ending. It's about this couple and they've broken up. But the chorus is essentially if the world was ending, you'd come over, right? There's there's still a sense in which we're still like bound together at the end of the day. And it's that kind of energy that we were talking about earlier that is like, I want the folks at QDP or the folks in the club to always understand if the police raid the club, that we're fighting together, that we are linking arms.
Kashif
The muscle gays, the butch lesbians, the whomever, the non-binary folks.
Blake
And if you try to run out the side door and you look like me, I'm grabbing your arm and I'm pulling you back in. Because it's time to fight. And I think for me, that's the practice is understanding where we are.
Kashif
I love that. I think I would like to see more events or just a space where different types of people who don't usually interact can just sort of cross. I think just whatever we can do to foster that and like low pressure, low stakes, so that it's not just about fuckability and like the hunt, but that literally people can make friends that they would not have thought of.
Blake
I love that.
Kashif
And sometimes you actually realize your attractions are wider than what you thought. Because you're in it, you're like, oh, wait, that's okay. So I would love to see also more things like that. That probably aligns with my previous point kind of, but whatever we can do to foster that and forthcoming prides, I want to see that. And then I'm just going to dump a third point in there. More 90s and early 2000s music.
Blake
Oh, I'm here for that. I want that.
Kashif
Please play that so we can just sang and just dance our asses off.
Blake
And we're not the only ones that want that. The crowd lights up every single time that happens.
Kashif
Every single time. So like, give it to us. Come on, DJs. Yeah, we it's give the girls what they give the people what they want.
Blake
Exactly.
Kashif
All right. We're going to take another ad break and we'll be right back with our game. My friends know that one of my favorite sayings is that's nothing to write home about. And sometimes if I'm feeling a little spicy, I'll say, don't get out your good stationery. Well, not getting out your good stationery is very hard to do when you shop at Gift Horse in Nashville. Gift Horse is a locally owned shop that focuses on paper goods and unusual gifts sourced from independent artists around the world. I love to walk in there, catch up with their team of knowledgeable staff, and soak in all the colors. And it is my go-to place when I need to send Nashville-themed gifts to my friends and family living elsewhere. Whether you're looking for a Kawako fountain pen or a sardine jaw clip, you can find it at Gift Horse. Don't live in Nashville? No worries. You can shop online at gifthorsnashville.com. All right. It's that time for our game of who's going to be there. So every week we use a randomizer and come up with three names. We'll decide, you know, we have an invitation to this party and we'll decide if we're going or not. All right, here we go. Simone Biles.
Blake
Okay.
Kashif
Marjorie Taylor Greene.
Blake
Oh my God.
Kashif
And Aunt Viv.
Blake
Okay.
Kashif
Okay. So that is, okay. Aunt Viv, of course.
Blake
I'm kind of here for this, actually.
Kashif
And I'll just say Aunt Viv is, of course, the real Aunt Viv, the first one from Fresh Prince, our chocolate queen, so to speak. I sound like a white person saying that, but yeah. That's the Aunt Viv we're talking about. So she's going to be there, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Simone Biles. Okay, what do you think?
Blake
Okay, my first gut reaction to any of these folks that come up is, I'm just going to see how I'm feeling in my body in terms of what the energy is from all of these separate people. Simone Biles, Aunt Viv, yes. Marjorie Taylor Greene, of course, no. It's not just her politics, it's her energy. I just cannot stand her. This might be another one of those parties that like I might be going to jail I just might not be able to resist myself
Kashif
Yeah because if she decides to get loud with Aunt Viv, first of all Aunt Viv is gonna and now remember that Aunt Viv is a professional woman and she will take care of her own her own business and you know basically cuss Marjorie Taylor Greene out without you saying a cuss word
Blake
yeah
Kashif
so I'm not I wouldn't be worried about her
Blake
Well, see, I don't need any provocation. I guess that's what I'm saying.
Kashif
Yeah. It's like, let her just get even a little bit loud.
Blake
It could just be one little off comment.
Kashif
But you know she's going to do it.
Blake
She 100% is.
Kashif
You know she will do it in the vestibule.
Blake
Yes.
Kashif
Like they would barely be in the door holding hors d'oeuvres, piggies in the blanket.
Blake
I can feel my blood pressure rising thinking about it.
Kashif
She would just come up with something right there and probably or be talking to somebody else and say, you know, talk about, you know, black women. or they need to do more testing in sports to make an implication about...
Blake
She would hate Simone Biles' presence there.
Kashif
Yeah, yeah. So I think, but would I go to this party? You know what's weird? Because I love the two, our two queens, but like, I don't think I would go.
Blake
Yeah, you know what? This might be one of those times where I get Simone and Aunt Vib on a separate group text and say, hey, the party's actually over here.
Kashif
Yeah, oh my God. Okay, this might be, yes, the party's over here and like maybe it's on the patio or it's like at the bar down the street.
Blake
Or we talked to the host about kicking Marjorie out.
Kashif
Yeah, because she's just like bad blood all around. I even think her own colleagues, like folks on her side would be like, can y'all please tell her just to be quiet so we can, you know, smoke our cigars? Because she's just like killing the vibe, killing the mood.
Blake
The more that I think about this, the more that it would be a terrible combination, especially in light of Simone Biles' recent stance on trans folks and Marjorie Taylor Greene's vitriol for anything LGBTQ+. I think that shit would go down.
Kashif
Yeah, it would be a challenge. Yeah, I'm either on the patio or at the bar down the street. But as it stands, I would not go to this party.
Blake
I feel that. I'm aligned.
Kashif
Yeah. Well, Blake, it is good to meet.
Blake
And it is sad to part.
Kashif
We will see you all next time in the next two weeks. And thank you for listening. Bye.
Blake
Thanks. Bye.
Kashif
Sorrel. Drink some sorrel.